Talk:Purpose and properties of good assessments: Difference between revisions
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==Uncertainty== | ==Uncertainty== | ||
Revision as of 08:06, 8 February 2008
Uncertainty
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←--#1:: . Including the diagnosis and communication of uncertainty as criteria for good integrated risk assessment would be in line with W.P.1.5 deliverable 7: Uncertainty report's message: "Experts must be able to systematically diagnose and communicate the uncertainties characterising their assessments" (p.26) "in order to provide an impartial source of facts upon which policy decisions can be based." (p.9) --Sjuurd 17:40, 27 June 2007 (EEST) (type: truth; paradigms: science: defence) ←--#2:: . Diagnosing and communicating uncertainties of the assessment and its parts are important. They are covered in the properties of good risk assessment under the quality of content (informativeness and calibration) and applicability (usability and availability). In essence, the informativeness and calibration describe how well defined, i.e. how uncertain, the contents of the assessment are. Usability and availability describe how well the information, e.g. about the uncertainty, is conveyed to its target. --Mikko 18:16, 27 June 2007 (EEST) (type: truth; paradigms: science: defence) |
Moderator qualifications
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←--#1:: . If I've understood right, a good general level understanding is required from a person to be a moderator in a risk assessment. The quality of the assessment is thought to be achieved, basically, through several variable-related, variable-linkage-related, argumentation-based quality aspects. I don't see these aspects adequate SOLELY as themselves for the guarantee of good risk assessments (RAs) with good outcomes. The moderator has to understand complex causes and effects. How could she/he build up a relevant full-chain RA or a relevant RA network, figure out what variables are needed, what would be usefull as addings and what would be all the important uncertainties involved in those and how these uncertainties could be overcome or dealt with if crucial knowledge and comprehensive understanding is lacking? Unfortenately I don't see this could be overcome with expert judgement or guidelines, because comprehensive understanding on the whole network has to be build up by the moderator itself. I see someone has to "run the show". I see expert judgement, argumentation and variable as well as the assessment "rules" as very helpfull means of making it all a lot easier for a moderator that is skilled and experianced enough (specialist or almost such) on the whole issue under assessment. Additionally, an early began discussion between the risk assessor and the risk manager so that they really understand each others is crucial for the final usability of the assessment. I'm sure we agree at least on the latter. --Anna Karjalainen 14:23, 11 June 2007 (EEST) (type: truth; paradigms: science: defence)
←--#3:: . I see in different assessments the moderator or a core group of moderators (both can be possible and should be conceivable) can be both, either a facilitator or sometimes a "manager". Ideal situation would be of cource, and probably quite attainable, that it would most often be a facilitator, but I'm trying to be also realistic and see that in certain cases the role of the moderator would be quite strong. So I think we should leave space for both possibilities. I agree that the assessment should be a synthesized result that's for sure. I DO NOT suggest that a risk assessment should be exclusively a moderator's product. What I do state is, that IN ORDER TO GUIDE THE ASSESSMENT PROCESS SUCCESFULLY THROUGH, i.e. to be either a facilitator or a "manager" the moderator needs to have (or build on) a fairly good understanding on the assessment under question. So the moderator or the core group of moderators need to be specialists or experts enough, a general level understanding sounds not enough to me. --Anna Karjalainen 09:57, 28 June 2007 (EEST) (type: truth; paradigms: science: defence)
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Selection of indicators
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⇤--#1:: . The properties of a good risk assessment is described by trying to categorizise important properties distinctive for good RAs. Why is the used approach for this purpose chosen? is it ment to clarify the goodness-related properties of a RA? I ask this, because some of the presented concepts are not very easily opened up to me. For instance the informativeness: what is stated about it is very much true and understandable as such. However, to my opinion, it would not always be possible to describe variables as distributions or even estimates of distributions in a way that it actually would add up to the infomativeness. I also have difficulties in figuring out what is really ment with the calibration concept. What is correctness and what is the real value? Nature or for instance a individual body is continuously shifting from one state of situation to another, so something that could be thought as real doesn't really actually exist. The term calibration automatically in my mind refers to something much more narrow and measurable than can almost ever be reached in the context it is now used in. The selection criteria for indicators in human health or ecological risk assessments are traditionally viewed as: 1) social relevance, 2) biological and human health relevance, 3) an unambiguous operational definition, 4)accessibility to prediction and measurement, 5) susceptibility to hazardous agents and 6) unresponsiveness to any irrelevant impacts concerning the assessment scope. The last two points are related although they do not automatically exclude each others. To fulfill these requirements is not at all easy, quite far from it, so why make it sound any more complicated than it already is? The above indicator selection criteria may be viewed as conventional, but they still very much fit for use. Could/should these issues be brought up from the stated aspects in the document to your opinion? --Anna Karjalainen 15:15, 11 June 2007 (EEST) (type: truth; paradigms: science: attack)
←--#(number):: . There is no point in your reply that I could not actually agree on. I merely pointed out certain issues that I find tricky as concepts. One of those, calibration, was found tricky also by David Briggs just recently. I also pointed out certain issues that to my opinion should be included when figuring out the properties of good RAs. I know, they are actually included in the stated terms, but what harm would it be if the indicator selection criteria would be clarified a bit as stated? I guess it's just up to you and Jouni if you like to take into account these comments. --Anna Karjalainen 10:24, 28 June 2007 (EEST) (type: truth; paradigms: science: defence)
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Relation of relevance to content quality and applicability
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⇤--#1:: . Internal relevance is defined as the internal coherence of the description, i.e. correctness and completeness of the variable relation definitions. External relevance is the correctness and completeness of what is included in assessment in relation to its purpose. The previous is objective in its nature, because its point of reference is reality, but the latter is subjective and case-specific and it refers to the contextually and situationally ever-changing needs set by the intended use of the assessment product. Should external relevance be moved to category: applicability? Or should maybe the definitions of the properties be re-considered and re-specified more accurately? --Mikko 13:31, 24 August 2007 (EEST) (type: truth; paradigms: science: attack)
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